Permadeath

What is it? What does it mean? Will it work? If you follow the forums of any new MMORPG out there you have probably seen this buzzword brought up quite a bit. (Mayhaps even by me!) But though it is hotly debated it also very misunderstood. So lets define and discuss it.

‘Perma’ is a latin root which means to stay to the end, last or endure. Death is also derived from a latin root, most commonly Mort… but other roots are related, namely: “nex, mortalitas, mors mortis, letum, plecto aliquem capite, excessum, decessus”. (As a side note many of those would make great character names). So essentially we’re talking about a word that means to stay dead.

In a permadeath MMORPG the idea is to implement a system where a character could end up in a permanently dead state. Some examples are:

PdoT: You will permanently die over time. This has two subclasses, ‘Subclass A’ that accounts for skill and ‘Subclass B’ that does not. In the first you are given X lives and when you run out of them you must reroll but in the latter you are given X time and irregardless of your actions or skill you will reroll when that time is used up.
Iron Man Permadeath: You get one life. When you die you reroll. (There is the Dungeons and Dragons variation of this that allows you to be resurrected from the dead state by a friend but each resurrection uses up a hard limit. Commonly related to a physical attribute such as health or constitution.)
Watch your step: This is actually a combination of both Subclasses of PdoT. You are given X lives for X time. Commonly it is X lives per 24 hours. Should you die more then X times in this specific time period then you will reroll, however every X period of times that number will reset. Some allow roll-over lives like a cell phone plan and some don’t.

Permadeath is a great departure from current games that treat death like unconsciousness. You black out briefly and then awake at some distant spawn point. In fact there is no real death and the concept doesn’t actually exist in most games.

The fact that most MMORPGs don’t feature a state of permanent death is a big turn off for those that crave a virtual world. It is near impossible to accurately portray a virtual simulation of life that is missing something as common as death. It removes to a degree the concept of skill. Those with more time invested in the game will become more skilled and more powerful then anyone else. It indirectly places too much value on your avatar rather then your avatar’s actions and deeds. It allows players to win against other players.

Why are MMORPGs just now beginning to incorporate this exciting new feature? Well first of all it’s not really an exciting new feature. Anyone who has played pong or any other arcade game is familiar with the ancient feature. The question really is why has it taken so long for MMORPGs to begin to use it. Well likely because they are designed by older people who believe they will lose players if their ‘Main Avatar’ permanently dies. MMORPGs are designed around credit cards and thus most make it impossible for you to lose. Death can only slow you down, it can never kill you and you can never lose thus you must stick around to win, bubble by bubble, dollar by dollar until the end. Game expansions are designed to be so tedious that even the most skilled player could not conquer it before the next planned expansion can release. It’s a bait and hook tactic and it works for a large majority of the players. The rest get bored and move on to a new game. They normally attribute their move to a new game to boredom, graphics or their whole guild left so their going with them but few every analyze what it is they truly left for.

As a matter of personal opinion I like PdoT Subclass A in combination with unrestricted PvP and skill based character development. (As opposed to level based) I would like such a game to feature real world simulated physics. I would go so far as to say characters should have to eat, drink and keep their avatars appropriately dressed for their environment. Unrealistic features which turn games into chat rooms should be removed, that is things like Clan talk, Tell, gossip etc. Long distance communication should only be feasible through magic or messengers. The number of lives characters receive should be enough to compensate for lag deaths, network unreliability and bad decisions but few enough to bring about Challenge. Trials of Ascension is such a game that promises to offer this to us players and if it releases I will be there. Comments?



 
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Alignment Systems

If you don't know what an alignment system is allow me to update you.

Praebeo mihi ut doceo vos...

When we refer to alignment we are essentially refering to the moralities of your avatar. Is he aligned benevalently, malovently or somewhere in the middle. An alignment system is in its basic essence designed to be a good thing. It is designed to help the players to behave and get a long and is a means of instantaneous justice.

But are alignment systems needed in a virtual world that is portraying reality? Are we disallowing evil characters or punishing them? Are we encouraging and rewarding players who are deemed to be good? It would seem to me that the online society, were it capable of doing so, would reward those that should be. However you answer there are a few things I want to make I address..

• There is no all seeing eye that judges us always and instantly punishes us for doing something wrong. (Unless you live with your mom) We want to emulate a real virtual world and yes if someone catches you and chooses to do something about it then your caught, but should you pull of the perfect robbery or murder (virtually speaking) you should be allowed to reap the rewards.


• The goal is a virtual world and people want to play and should allowed to play characters of pure evil and malice. After all, we can not have good without evil.


• Code, and normally poorly written code, will determine your alignment tendencies based on exactly what happens in game. As an example: Should you accidentally click on the ground dropping your house key and someone wanders by and picks it up, well then they own it. They refuse to give it back and you kill them and take it back... Now your evil. Now the developers want to fix this, so they allow any item dropped to be flagged with a no steal flag for 30 seconds. Now if someone picks up they key you dropped they are flagged evil... Of course this time the guy who picks up your key is your friend and he hands it back to you... Is he still evil? The devs don't have time to mull the over though as there is a bank in the center of town where larry, moe and curly are dropping platinum coins and waiting for noobs to pick them up and thus be flagged evil and slain.

But some players cry that we NEED an alignment system to protect them. No they don't. What they need is a meaningful way to protect themselves in game. A way they can respond that griefers will understand. Consider The guild of Stygian (Fictional) has stationed 10 max level (or max skill) warriors outside the gates or Noeveb. (Fictional city populated with mostly new players) Their top twitch gamers each armed with Teamspeak and a keen desire to make sure the new players stay that way. The new players are getting slaughtered. A few are confused as to how they are even dying. This goes on for about 30 minutes until the Enforcers of Justice (Fictional good guys guild) swings through and kills the invaders on their way somewhere else. Since the Enforcers have warned Stygian of these actions several times they hunt each one down assigning 5 men to each Stygian member and kill each and everyone of them. They even get the guild leader twice! This takes a whole weekend and screenshots are posted as well as a short flash movie showing Stygians Guild Leader dying twice. Its all quite humerous and the Enforcers are on the forums all busy patting themselves on the back for a weekend of fun and chumming it up on the forums. They get PM and Stygian is back in Noeveb this time with 20 members. Nothing has changed. The Stygian Guild members involved in the affair are now aligned as evil and are KOS to most people. (Of course they were before too... But now their aligned as evil.) Should they need a good guy for shopping etc, they'll just log an alternate character.

All in all an alignment system is pointless and artficially restricts our freedom as players. We should be able to creep through our town through the dead of night after curfew to burgle the rich baron. And yes maybe we'll get caught... But we shouldn't defintely get caught.

Let the players police the players... To some degree most stories don't even make sense when played in their artfical world. The great menace of evil King Nordstrom came to the Good Kings castle and killed him sending a sliver of hate throughout the world forever. When in reality... This evil red king guy tried to come to town but he was evil and the guards autokilled. He respawned 17 times before he realized he can't make it to the good kings castle while he's evil. So he spent all night befriending rabbits and giving them carrots until he was good. Once he was blue he went to the kings castle and killed him which turned him red, which made the guards kill him and now they are both spawned in the cemetary and have been fighting there all day... . Egads...

Forums and Moderators

Game forums are not free forums -- Not even if the topic you wish to discuss relates to the game. Should you ever disagree with a moderator or more likely a moderator disagree with you then your tougue will be watched closely and anything that could be interpretted as a bannable offense shall immediately become one for you. Abstract opinons and ideas of your hidden meaning could all be used against you. (Whether you have a hidden meaning or not is not really the point as if you did have a hidden meaning it would be completely missed anyways...)

I have attempted to speak to the subject of Permadeath on the general forums of darkfall. However it is considered now to be a taboo subject and others are unable to ponder the thought of it without becoming angry no matter how I have brought up the subject. The moderators seem to have made up their mind and that is that. They will no longer listen to even the ideas of such a system... I remember a quote that stated a closed mind is like a closed book, they are both just a lump of wood... (Something like that) But I also remember a Quote from Aristotle:

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle 384—322 b.c.

Even if you disagree you could consider the concept rather then outright dismiss it. Not that I blame many of the people who disagree with me. Permadeath is a completely new and bizarre concept for most people. And "one of the greatest pains to human nature is the pain of a new idea." (Walter Bagehot) But I thought in my optimistic way I would get a fair chance to discuss it within the forums of darkfall espcially in light of all the new games that shall be out soon and featuring it. But a fair audience I did not get and though there were some that agreed and listened to me there were many more who hated me for 'Stirring the pot with my outlandish outsider ideas'. To be fair there is a few that listened and disagreed... Not many... In fact I can think of but one... nonetheless, "Anyone can become angry -- that is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way -- that is not easy. (Also Aristotle)

MMORPGS controlled by Moderators or the Fans?

So who controls MMORPGs these days and their fate? Moderators or the Gamers?

Because of the following post I was banned from the forums at Darkfallonline.com by of course Brannoc the moderator.... Review and let me know your thoughts... The post itself was deleted from the boards of darkfall.... *sigh*


I have tried to discuss with you the forum members the merits of Permadeath... Of course every time I attempt to begin the subject it is locked by Brannoc. Many of you agree. I could list 20 names from just my private messages but won't bring the hate upon you that I have had to endure.

Recently Brannoc locked yet another permadeath post which I replied to that was started by a member named DDT. DDT was an old school DF Fan who wanted DF to break out the shell of the tried and true games and do something orginal. Essentially he wanted a virtual world. The stakes of which him and I could hash out as he wanted one death and I prefer a 100 deaths. Why 100? Well I have explained this before but essentially to brew it down to the coffee of the discussion I want a game that proves to be challenging while not removing the fun from the game. Permadeath in the fashion I prescribe is not a new concept. It has been around since the days of Dikumuds long before most of you ever played what you deem a MMORPG. DikuMUDS features Permadeath in many different forms. The most popular of which was the fates system. A system where there was full PvP and Full loot. You had X lives and your life actions and the gear you acquired all mattered. Should you die you would probably lose all your gear and assuredly lose a fate. Once you ran out of fates you had to reroll. Trust me, it behooved people to behave well in this game and those that chose not to well... most of them were fated rather quickly but some... some were good. VERY good. In fact some were so good we assumed as players that developers must be playing them. Even though as players we had designed characters better then these assassins.... Nonetheless they were hated and hunted. Eventually they would fate. It took time, coordination and a attitude of vigilance but we accomplished it. I lost a mid level and high level character to one paticualry annoying assassin but in the end his final lifepoint was taken by me. What a thrill! What a feeling of exilheration and conquest!

I'm not here to advocate permadeath in Darkfall, in fact I would if a developer would even discuss it... Perhaps even if a Moderator ALLOWED it to be discussed... But I have posted numerous threads on Permadeath with links to about 30 different websites and articles from game designers to the new york times. I have posted links to other games featuring permadeath and quoted the number of followers of each respective game. I have pointed out the problems of Darkfall and what I think needs to be changed even if that game doesn't feature permadeath. Hell I have even tried to talk to a theoretical discussion where 1 server in all of Darkfalls servers is permadeath server. Believe it or not if Darkfall released tommorow with 99 regular servers and 1 permadeath server people would still fight against the 1 permadeath server. I'm not sure if its a pride thing or a fear of the unknown but I know this: The moderators of this board hate permadeath.

It got me thinking too. What shapes the future of a game... Personally these days I'm inclined to believe its the moderators. The allow what they want to be discussed and shut down anything they disagree with. Most developers are probably not even inclines to read locked threads as the percieve them to be mindless drivel littered with profanitys....

Recently I asked Brannoc why he locked the thread on Permadeath:

I said
Claus didn't lock it.... Why do you have to?

Since this is text and you can't see my face, I'm not trying to be cynical but I see no need for you to champion Claus when this topic has been brought up so many times but never allowed to be discussed.

Now I kind of feel the reason for that is that you yourself don't support Permadeath and lock threads that even touch on the subject but that is just a feeling I have from following the game over the years and should not by interpreted as fact.

Of course Im not the only one to draw that conclusion but I feel its easier to bump topics of posters who feel simliarly to as I do rather then begin discussions the mods deem pointless but the community may care about. I would like to remind you I have also posted polls you have as of not yet deemed ready for posting and every thread begun by me that features permadeath has been locked by you. (And only you)

Also I would like to point out that you have kicked me from IRC for even mentioning permadeath and in all of this... I have never once gotten nasty and strayed from being honorable while those that oppose it have insulted me and sworn at me. Seriously how many of my posts have you been forced to delete because of profanity or acting like a fool... On the contrary any post started by me that deals with a subject I know you hate is usually locked.... What words do you have for me?


and he had this to say...

Brannoc Said:
1. Claus himself has told you that permadeath isn't happening. I've told you. Tasos has told you. We've asked you not to continue creating threads telling everyone how it has to be there, you've ignored it. I interpret your current actions as trolling.

2. I don't recall removing you from IRC, however it runs on Stratics rules. While you might have a persecution complex I'm afraid that neither I or the staff are "out to get you" due to your personal opinions and preferences which you interpret as facts which must be adhered to.

Simply put I locked your current thread on the topic because it's from 2002. Myself and two other staff members judged your post to be nothing more than trolling in an attempt to draw the producer into a public argument. Such things just won't fly, no matter how badly you believe the game should be made in your vision.

My reply?

1.... I would like to discuss this topic with the community not just Claus. (Although he would be a welcome addition seeing as it his game and these are his forums)

2. Look at any thread I have started featuring the word permadeath and note it has been locked by Brannoc... Also note he is not for permadeath.

My post Continues
As for the rest... Truly... Does anyone here think I come here simple to troll? I have been coming to these boards for quite some time and I know I could come up with trolling posts that are less then the average length of my posts... Regarding games being developed in my vision? I believe the mods lock anything that suggests the game wont be developed in their vision. I have tried a single server discussion, a theorectical discussion and a complete imagine a system 10 years down the road discussion... Regardless of how it is phrased the post is locked and/or deleted.... Can't we once just all get along?

Pre-Release Communities

Ferox on Pre-Release Communities

So Ferox posted a new article on whether or not pre-beta communities matter. Currently he runs a fan site for the upcoming game DarkFall and is a fairly active poster. His points being the developers have been silent for quite some time which doesn't seem to bode well for the future of the game and that the developers really don't appreciate all the hard work people like him do for their site. Personally I feel that the fans who do frequent the DF site take comfort in seeing posts from the likes of people like Ferox and other regulars. That is the familiar voices and signatures of the die hard fans.

When they drop in, (infrequently, usally), some just look to see regular's posts. Sometimes they ask what seems to be a stupid question and the answers to that question are freely available, but not to the them. They don't know where to look and even if they do then they are unlikely to make the effort, esp when its far easier to post a stupid question and immediately get a response. It adds a certain comfort level and hardcore fans provide somewhat of a service to these companies.

From the developers point of view he may be right. No matter how infequently they post updates many people will never leave until they hear release or cancelled. Even when games are cancelled, the die hard fans stick around for quite some time. Unless the developers close the forums, then the fans (or ex-fans) in this case, goto mmorpg.com or even other games with a similar concept and post there. Its quite common.

Regarding ideas and concepts... it's really tough for people to add ideas or specific concepts to the minds of developers in a meaningful way. I mean every fan in virtually any game that hasn't been released has a different perspective of what the game will be and really what it is at any given time.

What would it really be like making a living as an elven thief in the elven village of Neardoaen? No one really knows save the developers (And even they are occasionally guessing at massive multiplayer character dynamics/interaction of their own game).

Thus while its great to say I want this feature or that feature, integrating any feature into a game many only have a cursorary high level view of is normally a recipe for disaster.

As a good a example take my stance on Permadeath. I still believe that what I want in a MMORPG is a virtual world with real world physics and a hard limit on respawning to simulate real world death. A hard limit should be large enough to not take the fun out of the game and make death feared yet low enough to provide challenge and a simulated reality for gamers. Limiting the number of respawns also rewards those who prefer not to take risks and hang out in town crafting and socializing while also rewarding those dangerous enough to go out exploring and take risks. (The rewards are different in both cases, Longevity and Glory respectively... Yet even the latter offers a chance for longevity).

This is my firm view. It has changed and evolved over the years and even some of my view points have changed. Yet it is what I think I would find the most fun and what I would prefer to spend my money on.

Is this is a fit for some of the upcoming games like Darkfall? Probably not... Could a server in Darkfall be adapted with an alternate ruleset? Perhaps... Unlikely though. Darkfall is not trying to simulate a real world environment. They have unrealistic features such as tell and alignment tracking. (A faerie that knows my every action?) Clan chat, Telepathic toons (You know everyone's name) a fake... or what I like to call a mini-game, 'Siege System' because making a siege system that has any resemblance to reality would just take the fun out of the game and make the game boring for players. How about some creativity... Lets make a siege system that as closely as possible recreates the physics and excitement of a real siege while not taking the fun out of it... Starving a town for month is realistic but not fun, so is their a way we can implement starving a town that is both fun and interesting? People do not want to see their towns destroyed in an hour if it took them months to build? So can we simulate this and make it fun? The answer is yes... In fact the answer should always be yes until its no. And the no better be a compelling reason as the fans for these games have been waiting an awful long time.

In short Darkfall in its current Faqdition (Condition based on the faq) is not a good fit for almost any feature based on reality. They are creating a game, a game I have played before and enjoyed but have no desire to play again. I havent played Starcraft since Age of Kings released. The innovations in the gameplay and the evolution is too much a stepping stone to drop back to even though I LOVED starcraft. I haven't played Age of Kings since Age of Mythology released. I haven't played Everquest since DAoC released nor DAoC since Shadowbane. And since I left Shadowbane I don't plan on playing another game until the genre takes that next step. That step will likely be taken by Shadowpool with Trials of Ascension. Time will tell.